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+--- Thread: In-Depth Look at Outer City (/Thread-In-Depth-Look-at-Outer-City)
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In-Depth Look at Outer City - Squinters - 07-20-2012
With 160 update just around the corner here is an analysis of the outer city (names for everything may vary depending on translation by Batheo):
There are 12 buildings for outer city (Lv requirements are for Collecting field building lvl):
1) Collecting field (starting building)- primary building of outer city, determines level cap for all outer city buildings
2) Worker camp (starting building)- increases worker cap and number of workers
3) Gem warehouse (starting building)- increases maximum ore reserve (think silver vault/granary in inner city)
4) Gem Mines (Gem Mine 1 at Lv 110, Gem Mine 2 at Lv 130, Gem Mine 3 at Lv. 150)- Increase gem output (think training grounds in inner city)
5) Prospector building (aLv 150)- increases crit rate of gem collection
6) Main Officee (Lv 140)- reduces cost of building upgrades for outer city
7) Garrison camp (Lv 120)- increases minimum production from gem mine
8) Supervision building (Lv 160)- percentage increase in ore collection
9) Carpenter office (Lv 120)- reduce outer city building CD
10) Refine Studio (Lv 160)- increase the success rate of gambling stones
11) Refine Sorting Workshop (Lv 130)- refines gems
12) Refine Craftsman building (Lv 140)- reduces gem refining CD
Outer city buildings share a building CD with the inner city; however, they have substantially longer CDs per upgrade. what will separate players apart is the order of building upgrades, unless you reduce CDs with gold (however this very costly since CDs will rise upwards of 1-2 days). There are a couple of upgrade orders (large degree of overlap between them) that are considered the most efficient.
Outer city buildings cost ore to upgrade rather than drachs. The conversion rate between ore to gems is 1000 to 1. This is a continuous system and done automatically by the system depending on whether you are in inner city or outer city interface. In the inner city view, you will see everything as normal (i.e. 596 gems in your inventory). Once you switch to outer city view, you will see available ore (i.e. 596,000 ores). Gem numbers will be rounded to whole number. Ore amount is capped by your gem warehouse (I believe initial inventory cap is 100k?), where you can exceed but won't get benefits of production. The estimated total cost for 1 to 160 of all 12 outer city buildings is 50k gems or 50 mil raw stones.
"Gambling ore" is part of the "diamonds in the rough" system and involves the last 3 buildings on the list... let's just say it's another way to burn gold. It's a largely criticized system. The basic idea is that the refine studio finds "diamonds" that range from white to purple (like all other equipment), which must be cut (lots of complaints about success rate where 92% isn't really 92%, blah, blah, blah). There is an auction system attached as well to selling the stones if you don't want to burn gold. (Have to read a little more into the system, will update with details later)
There was also huge bug issue with diamonds in the rough that resulted in massive account bans for exploitation.
RE: In-Depth Look at Outer City - Squinters - 07-20-2012
ok here is a vague introduction to diamonds in the rough:
It is the actual "refinery" part provided in this update (since, as I mentioned above, any mined ores are directly converted gems and its a continuous system).
Stones can be found by workers ranging from white to purple (this is the part I am not clear on, the mechanism or probability of finding various colors). Depending on the level of your refine studio, you will have a shown success rate for cutting the stones. The costs of cutting are as follows:
white: 60k drachs
blue: 120k drachs
green: 100g
yellow: 160g
red: 240g
purple: 360g
those are the costs of cutting 1 stone. Each stone has a minimum and maximum possible return for successful cutting. But as with enhancing, a shown success rate of 92% will not truly be 92%. I assume 99.9999% of players will only be cutting white and blue so returns are:
white: 13 gems min, 32 gems max (estimated average 15 gems)
blue: 19 gems min, 68 gems max (estimated average 22 gems)
Average return closer to lower end due to fail rate.
For all the collected green, yellow, etc. stones, there is an auction system in which the stones can be sold to other players. This is a broken system that heavily favors high-level spenders in chinese version, but won't have impact on Batheo since there no high-level spenders in the game.
RE: In-Depth Look at Outer City - LambOfGod - 07-25-2012
(07-20-2012, 11:56 PM)Squinters Wrote: "For all the collected green, yellow, etc. stones, there is an auction system in which the stones can be sold to other players. This is a broken system that heavily favors high-level spenders in chinese version, but won't have impact on Batheo since there no high-level spenders in the game."
Ha! You must not play with GBH...This gives him something to do with his gold...other than buying more vans, killing cd, ect ect that he spends hundreds on like nothing =P At least this makes all that spending more worthwhile for him =P~
RE: In-Depth Look at Outer City - Sapan - 07-25-2012
Paying 120k drachs for 22 gems? Is this a good deal?
Drach costs are rocketing tbh, I think I am gonna need 3-4 months to max the gear I care about.
RE: In-Depth Look at Outer City - Monnok - 07-25-2012
Actually, he spends most of his gold buying divs, and thats saying something when a guy does 55-60 extra levies/day (down from 99, back when we were all on Tart).
I hope that qualifies him as a high-level spender...
RE: In-Depth Look at Outer City - Squinters - 07-25-2012
nope, it actually doesn't. the levies are pricey and really inefficient use of gold (i generally stopped at 20g), but everything else I've done on a daily basis as well.
Like I said, spending on batheo pales in comparison to spending on chinese servers. Top player on chinese servers spends 5-10 million gold a month. At our conversion rate for $ to gold that's $250k a month. Not happening.
It's really all about perspective in this case. Who we consider to be "high-level spenders", wouldn't even be competitive with the top players on chinese servers.
RE: In-Depth Look at Outer City - Sapan - 07-26-2012
Good thing we dont have to compete with them. Evidently, gold makes a huge difference. I do 3 extra levies per day, and I spend 10-15 gold in training. And at this rate, the drachs is really a problem.
I am 150 now. And none of my gear is maxed, second kylin, second mjolnir not enchanted at all, the map reward purple book, which I have been focusing on lately, only got to G10 10. Dont have no ZC, couldnt spare the funds to auto comm lately due to heavy building costs.
Safe to say, I play in a very optimized way, dont think I have ever missed a refine or a levy. So this is as good as it gets. My estimation is, I wont be able to enchant a horn for another 4 months.
A guy who does 20 more levies and a couple of caravan events, would be gaining 1 mil on me on a daily basis. In the course of 4 months, that would mean 1 maxed Kylin, 1 Maxed Mjolnir difference. Huge deal.
I would definitely consider him to be a high spender. Likewise, a VIP4 would be considered a high spender compared to VIP0’s out there. As the top Chienese guys are considered to be high spenders compared to our top spenders.
And the game is really different in different VIP levels. Squinters, when you emphasize the importance of frag hunting, guide people to skip gardens, legions and focus on arms. I get what you mean. Armament levels is the difference among the top contenders. As other resource blocks are easier to remedy with gold.
But when you go down the VIP ladder, laurels and drachmas also show up as blocking resources. For those competitive VIP0s, VIP1s out there with three training spots, training speed is probably a huge bottleneck. It is helluva job to advance as far as they did, with only three training spots and no advanced/plat training. Probably trans is the most valuable resource for them.
It is a clever sort of game design in that sense I think, that there is no certain formula to success, each guy has to do his own optimization.
RE: In-Depth Look at Outer City - Squinters - 07-26-2012
vip4 vs. vip0 no difference. vip0 vs. vip10 very little difference. a lucky vip0 can pass an unlucky vip10 fairly easily if the goal is 170.
when classify as high-level spender vs. low-level spender it refers to gold making up for luck factors. where over the course of a month a high-level spender will enhance 5-10x as many arms- so luck doesn't matter.
Again those who emphasize difference between vip0 and vip10 lack appreciation for end-game stall.
RE: In-Depth Look at Outer City - Sapan - 07-26-2012
A VIP4 would be lvl160 before VIP0 can even start to farm red arms.
Actually, without red horns, I dont think a VIP0 can never ever close that gap with luck or arms or whatever.
So I would think regardless of whatever the end game stall is, VIP0 and VIP4 has an insane amount of difference.
RE: In-Depth Look at Outer City - Squinters - 07-27-2012
no, wrong.
RE: In-Depth Look at Outer City - Sapan - 07-27-2012
ok I am convinced.
VIP0=VIP4. VIP0 can pass VIP10 fairly easy.
There is a hidden PG that favors the low VIP, their heroes dodge more, opponent mages fail.
RE: In-Depth Look at Outer City - Squinters - 07-27-2012
again, completely untrue. it's not about "fairly easily". its about end of 150 and 160 being such a huge sticking point that everyone eventually catches up or passes.
RE: In-Depth Look at Outer City - Zalera - 07-27-2012
(07-20-2012, 09:10 PM)Squinters Wrote: There are a couple of upgrade orders (large degree of overlap between them) that are considered the most efficient.Squinty, if you ever come back and see this, any suggestions to building upgrade order?
RE: In-Depth Look at Outer City - Pluton - 07-27-2012
Squinters,
160 USD = 500 Kulun = 5000 Gold (Koramgame)
160 USD = 4800+125 Gold (ClapAlong)
What is the conversion rate you're talking about?
1.00 USD = 6.38 CNY (Yuan)
RE: In-Depth Look at Outer City - Squinters - 07-28-2012
huh? conversion rate on chinese servers is about 1 USD to 600 gold. for the high conversion servers. otherwise it's 1 USD to 60 gold
koramgame versions are not equivalent to chinese servers. it is initial translation for chinese version onto american servers (DS). it's just as bad if not worse than batheo.
RE: In-Depth Look at Outer City - Pluton - 07-28-2012
Oh, I was looking at conversion rates in as.kunlun.tw
What are the high conversion servers? yaowan?
RE: In-Depth Look at Outer City - Squinters - 07-28-2012
a lot of the most popular/well-known platforms like yaowan, astd, tgbus, duowan, and 4399 are all 1:10
Off the top of my head i know that 178 is a 1:100 platform
(yuan to gold that is)
RE: In-Depth Look at Outer City - Sapan - 07-31-2012
(07-27-2012, 12:41 PM)Squinters Wrote: again, completely untrue. it's not about "fairly easily". its about end of 150 and 160 being such a huge sticking point that everyone eventually catches up or passes.
Only as untrue as your statements about the differences in VIP levels. I dont think you would find anybody to back you up about "VIP0=VIP4, VIP0 can pass VIP0 fairly easy" arguments.
No matter how huge the sticking point is, a devoted and smart VIP10, would "at least" maintain 20 levels advantage to an equally devoted and smart VIP0 until VIP0 guy reaches your sticking point and that would take a year or more. In the course of a year, 20 levels advantage would mean tremendous advantage in terms of drachma and gem earnings, arms levels. And there is the red horns and the 150k gold.
And such a gap cant be closed, between two "equally competent" players.
A high VIP may think that VIP level makes no importance at all. But no low VIP would ever agree to that. You may dismiss opposing arguments with comments like "no, wrong", wouldnt make your arguments any more convincing tho. Dont make tiniest amount of sense.
Also if you have seen some low level VIP catching up to some high level VIP of earlier servers. It dont mean nothing. The guys on the front provide input to the guys behind. Late comers make less mistakes. The hidden mechanics of the game are getting uncovered. The game is getting easier. Each patch we get more drachmas, more laurels, more gems, enchant costs getting lowered, arms costs getting lowered, odds getting buffed, heroes getting buffed. So in later servers, people advance faster. That is completely another thing tho.
Also I should be saying, I really dont believe in a huge block as you say. I dont think they would make us wait in front of the same npc for 6 months. The game is repetitive as it is, if it gets any more repetitive, we would eventually find some other game.
That is why we are getting various buffs with all patches. They have to make us advance to keep us playing. If there was a huge block in chienese servers, they would fix that problem before applying the same update to us.
RE: In-Depth Look at Outer City - Squinters - 07-31-2012
By your logic I guess i'm a pretty undevote and dumb vip10 because there are definitely more than a couple of vip0's that I'm not 20 levels ahead of.
I'm sure you have very intricate knowledge of end game mechanics too and I look forward to you "uncovering" them for me. I'm also sure the hundreds of players on chinese servers stuck at 160 will be very glad to know that they don't have to keep playing since they've been stuck for so long. Not sure they ever realized that they could quit... All their vip10s must be terrible too, with only one level 180 player across all servers and platforms.
Your last statement has to be the most hilarious one, considering Batheo implements updates sequentially in the same order as chinese servers and has NEVER applied any fixes earlier. (They did such a great job of addressing skuld's initial broken elem shield mechanism... o wait, that same problem was transferred directly over)
If you wish to continue trolling on this topic, be my guest. I've made the points that need to be made.
RE: In-Depth Look at Outer City - Pluton - 07-31-2012
(07-31-2012, 08:34 AM)Sapan Wrote: That is why we are getting various buffs with all patches. They have to make us advance to keep us playing. If there was a huge block in chienese servers, they would fix that problem before applying the same update to us.They are not fixing anything.
Batheo is an exact clone of chinese servers and each patch are applied with same or more delay than in chinese server. In addition, Batheo have less features and much less activities than the original chinese servers.
There are VIP 1,4,7 that are lv 150, so VIP10 certainly makes not much difference.
The little extras that VIP10 can get gets cancelled by luck factor, which is worse for high VIPs.
Why Squinters decided to spend that much money for some virtual gold that makes little difference.