House of Hades, One Hero, Low Level

[dietonight]

Obviously, the majority of these fights are with Dionysus in an obvious formation (Skein, Boar's Head or Crescent); I prefer Skein. Battles in which I did something special, like using a different hero or putting Dionysus in an unusual formation, are underlined. NPCs that took more than 20 tries are bolded.

--- Lv 58 ---

Scout Force I: http://b27.clapalong.com/?fid=N2012042413521626 (~M46)
Scout Force II: http://b27.clapalong.com/?fid=N20120611171905 (M50, ~140 tries)
Cerberus: http://b27.clapalong.com/?fid=N20120611273483 (M50)
Aeacus: http://b27.clapalong.com/?fid=N201206201315723 (M50, ~90 tries)

--- Lv 59 ---

Vanguard Force I: http://b27.clapalong.com/?fid=N20120624487785 (M49)
Vanguard Force II: http://b27.clapalong.com/?fid=N20120624493053 (M49)
Vanguard Force III: http://b27.clapalong.com/?fid=N20120624499683 (M49)
Alastor: http://b27.clapalong.com/?fid=N20120624528798 (M49)
Nemean Lion: http://b27.clapalong.com/?fid=N20120624592629 (M49)
Menoetius: http://b27.clapalong.com/?fid=N20120624652396 (M49)
Persephone: http://b27.clapalong.com/?fid=N201206241000286 (M49)

--- Lv 60 ---

Main Force I: http://b27.clapalong.com/?fid=N201206241300474 (M48)
Main Force II: http://b27.clapalong.com/?fid=N201206271252126 (M50)
Main Force III: http://b27.clapalong.com/?fid=N201206271258625 (M50)
Main Force IV: http://b27.clapalong.com/?fid=N201207219392723 (M50, ~95 tries)
Iapetus: http://b27.clapalong.com/?fid=N2012072222137 (M50)
Achlus: http://b27.clapalong.com/?fid=N20120722109193 (M50)
Makaria: http://b27.clapalong.com/?fid=N20120722112386 (M50)

Still working on the big boss, Hades. Lack of pvp targets on my server is not helping.

[jesfred]

dietonigth I have an idea for you do you can do a all level hero run just one hero whit anyone start heroes example :kratos.richard 1st,orianthie,ect only

[dietonight]

It might help if you typed in comprehensible English...

[Pluton]

Great job dietonight!

You also used Geras (M50, ~140 tries) and Hemera (M50, ~90 tries)!
Are those 2 NPC extremely hard or impossible for Dionysus?

Can you tell us what are your motivation for doing one hero low level run? Wouldn't simply low level run be more challenging since you have to choose the correct heroes and formation instead of just using Dionysus?

Finally, can you post some PvP battle reports? Like lv 60 beating some lv 100.

Good luck on big boss Hades!

(08-01-2012, 10:39 PM)jesfred Wrote: dietonigth I have an idea for you do you can do a all level hero run just one hero whit anyone start heroes example :kratos.richard 1st,orianthie,ect only

One hero run with only 1 starter hero would be too limited and not useful at all.

[jesfred]

I understand for my English maybe i have the anwers for what i write not very well the English is my second language i am a Canadian from the province of quebec my first language is french and i say this question to dietonigh to see if they can do better than some people on the servers french of athanaton. maybe pluton you have understand what i have mean. is for just the important. if you do not understand i can rewrite better or change my sentences.

[dietonight]

By the way, in case it wasn't obvious already, Dio has an almost perfect
triple wash throughout this run, as does Geras. Hemera has only an
(almost perfect) double wash because I only used her against a non-mage
NPC; but you can bet if I had tried against an NPC with a mage, I would
have changed that to a triple wash. Triple washing heroes with weak
starting element may be useless in late maps, but it makes a huge
difference in pre-Tartarus maps where most NPCs have weak stats!

Also, all the "obvious" stuff is maxed. Equipment is the best possible for a non-VIP of the relevant level (Apollo's Bow, Caged Desire replaced by Burning Lava after leveling to 59, Chimera, Cloak of Runes, Plaintive Rhinoceros Horn and Achievements in Charming for extra faculty). Techs are always all maxed. Hero levels and ren levels are always maxed, except for with Main Force I which I rushed into (and won easily).

(08-02-2012, 08:09 PM)Pluton Wrote: Great job dietonight!

You also used Geras (M50, ~140 tries) and Hemera (M50, ~90 tries)!
Are those 2 NPC extremely hard or impossible for Dionysus?

Can you tell us what are your motivation for doing one hero low level run? Wouldn't simply low level run be more challenging since you have to choose the correct heroes and formation instead of just using Dionysus?

Finally, can you post some PvP battle reports? Like lv 60 beating some lv 100.

Good luck on big boss Hades!
One hero run with only 1 starter hero would be too limited and not useful at all.

Thanks Pluton. In answer to your questions...

There's a thin line between 'impossible' and merely 'very, very difficult'. I don't know whether or not Scout Force II and Aeacus are truly impossible with Dionysus; but if they are possible, they surely require almost unimaginable amounts of luck. I'd actually say the same about Main Force IV, with the fine print that Dio with an 'ordinary' formation is inordinately difficult. With all of these NPCs, I actually started off by trying Dio in Skein. With Aeacus, I realized pretty quickly I wasn't going to win that way; but the other two I actually persisted with that for at least a few scores of attempts.

With SFII, a single hit with the thunder mage is pretty much a guaranteed lose; and that t-mage has a frustratingly low fail rate. In fact, a pretty large proportion of my tries ended in a Complete Lose where the t-mage didn't fail even once! So you are pretty much forced to put Dio in the top column. Now having established that, what would it take to get a win? First, the flaming cavalry takes two hits, both of which can be dodged, to kill; and if Dio gets a crit on the opening shot, he will be at an inevitable disadvantage because the next BM he fires will be recover low faculty. Second, you've got the grosfomachoi, who blocks a lot, almost certainly takes 3 hits to kill, and fires Sally Outburst every turn starting on Turn 3 (if Dio lands a successful hit on Turn 3) or Turn 4 (if Dio doesn't). So for just about all intents and purposes, Dio can't attack the t-mage until Turn 6 at minimum. He'll then need 3 hits to kill the t-mage unless he crits twice and is at high faculty. And if all that isn't freakishly improbable enough, keeping in mind that even a single hit from the t-mage gives you essentially no chance, you've still got a very damaging water mage to kill, with only one enemy unit left to charge up Dio's morale. I tried this approach probably at least 80 times; only twice did I even manage to kill the grosfomachoi. Of those two battles, I didn't lay a finger on the fire mage once and got one hit on him the other time. I also tried an almost perfectly triple-washed Syrinx for this guy; but realized relatively soon she couldn't win even with 100% failing from the t-mage a 60% failing from the water mage.

With Aeacus, the problem is simply too much brute force offense and defense, coupled with the always painful Noct and stun. With the trojan horse, the archer and of course Aeacus himself, the enemy build is like a choir singing crit, crit, criiiiiittttt. Meanwhile, the armored cyclops' chariot is there to protect Aeacus and the archer, and deny Dio faculty replenishment. It didn't take me long to realize Dio (and Syrinx, just for due diligence) was overmatched. Could I have won with Dio eventually? I don't know... But it would surely have required Dio to crit pretty much every turn while the enemy almost never got a crit. Who knows many thousands of divs that could have taken...

With MFIV, the difficulty comes not from any single unit, but from all of them working together as a brutally effective team. If you put Dio at the top, it takes two hits to kill the pezhetaroi, assuming you don't get blocked on Turn 1. Then comes the stumbling block. If Dio crits on Turns 3 and 4, the cavalry dies in 2 hits; but this is extremely rare (I'd say less than once every 30 tries). Far more likely, Dio either hits twice with at least one non-crit, which leaves the cavalry alive to fire Armored Charge Attack with a few hundred or less faculty and causing Dio's next Mutiny Outbreak to restore very little faculty, or even worse Dio gets dodged at least once. Regardless, the archer will always fire All Around Ambusclade on Turn 4 and Dio will not his desperately needed Mutiny Outbreak until Turn 6 (if the cavalry survived, in which case Dio replenishes at most a few hundred faculty) or Turn 7 (if the cavalry is dead), during which time the archer and jorgumand will almost surely spamming crits, if they haven't already been doing so all along. If you put Dio in the middle or bottom, the archer usually dies on Turn 2. Unfortunately, the jorgumand will then take 3 hits to kill unless Dio crits him twice, at the end of which Dio will usually have lost at least half his faculty due to a combination of the cavalary's full power Armored Charge Attack and the fire mage steadily wearing Dio down. Dio will then struggle mightily against the pezhetaroi due to blocking and low damage from low faculty. Even if does manage to kill the pezhetaroi (usually due to getting lucky with crits), the cavalry is there to finish off dodges and an inevitable 2nd Armored Charge Attack.

A permanent one-hero running account was indeed not my original plan. Instead, it started as a spin-off... I noticed that the early part of the game, from Trial of Perseus to Jack and the Beanstalk, can be cleared pretty efficiently using Atelante alone using white equipment first (which back then one could buy from the non-VIP shop) and the blue/green equipment from map rewards a little later. But after easily clearing Jack and the Beanstalk and Labyrinth of Crete at Lv 30, I wondered how much further I could go. I pushed all the way through Thetis and Phologios, finally beating them after a tiring number of attempts. I then thought to myself "Ok, not going any further at Lv 30"; so I leveled up to 33 and after further pains and troubles managed to finish Dispute of Golden Apple and Heath Aflame. But why stop there? After leveling up again, I started pushing through Roaring Seas. I got all the way to Thalassa at Lv 38 before getting stuck and even after reluctantly leveling up to 40, I still couldn't pass. Realizing that letting myself use any one hero was a more interesting challenge than limiting myself to just Atelante, I brought in Syrinx and sure enough her powerful crits made short of work of Thalassa. And so then it continued through the next few maps, as I gradually leveled up (Roaring Seas finished at 40, Falling Earth at 45, Burning Sky at 50, EUR at 56).

If I can beat Hades, I plan to continue: Faction maps (most likely finished at Lv 80) and Tartarus (finished at Lv 100). From what I've been told, Ragnarok is impossible with one hero, even at Lv 110 with perfect everything. Guess I may find that out first-hand, some day...

You're right that one hero running doesn't require as intricate strategies as "ordinary" low level runs. But there is still some strategy involved, in hero choice, positioning and formation. The need to constantly triple wash makes recruiting the wrong hero a much graver error than usual. A one-hero run gives you a different perspective on the game; in a normal low-level run, AOE attacks tend to be the most dangerous because they're untankable but in a one-hero run, AOE attacks are the least threatening. And then there's the coolness factor to seeing an NPC fall to a single hero. Last but not least... Let's not forget I already have an "ordinary" low level run going...

Will get back to with those pvp BRs later; this post was time-consuming enough already!

[dietonight]

Sorry it took so long. Lots of things on my mind...

Just picking the first one on the list for each win/loss of each opponent, and going back all 8 pages...

- PVP wins -
Apokolypce: b27.clapalong.com/?fid=N201208079648194
Kaelthas: b27.clapalong.com/?fid=N201208073602273
Xys: b27.clapalong.com/?fid=N201208051752378
VonDoom: b27.clapalong.com/?fid=N20120803630057
TheJackal: b27.clapalong.com/?fid=N201208014464859
cham2: b27.clapalong.com/?fid=N201208014440707

- PVP losses -
Kaelthas: b27.clapalong.com/?fid=N201208073601360
molenutz: b27.clapalong.com/?fid=N201208064410557
Smasher: b27.clapalong.com/?fid=N201208064271105

There used to be another player I had a great rivalry against: leadft. Unfortunately for both this thread, and for my hopes of ever beating Hades, he has hasn't logged on in a week...

[Guest]

Sometimes, a lose is even more interesting than a win. Here is me getting beaten by a Lv 60 Poseidonian who used only one hero.

To be fair to myself, I was not at full strength due to the shortage of pvp targets. Only M47.

b27.clapalong.com/?fid=N201208177397849

[dietonight]

A marvelous victory!!! And I did it at only M46!!!

http://b27.clapalong.com/?fid=N2012091011000392
http://b27.clapalong.com/?fid=N2012091011001279
http://b27.clapalong.com/?fid=N2012091011002272

(No, not Hades. My very first UGL survive. Didn't get an opportunity to attack a 4th NPC.)

[dietonight]

Pvp win against the player who beat me with one hero: b27.clapalong.com/?fid=N201209049332819

Very tough to fight with one hero. Triton + Heph + buglers lethal. Needed a lot of luck.

[dietonight]

Made about 30 Hades attempts this morning. 2 Narrow Loses, the second of which ended with all of Hades' troops dead except his jorgumand, who would have died in 1 more hit. If I had gotten just 1 more block, or 1-2 less crits from that jorgumand...

Arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[dietonight]

At long last... After over 110 tries...

Hades: http://b27.clapalong.com/?fid=N2012092136687

---

Virgin Hades Legion run didn't go so well... Oh well, not that I care.

Alastor: http://b27.clapalong.com/?fid=N20120921198701

[jesfred]

(09-21-2012, 01:11 AM)dietonight Wrote: At long last... After over 110 tries...

Hades: http://b27.clapalong.com/?fid=N2012092136687

---

Virgin Hades Legion run didn't go so well... Oh well, not that I care.

Alastor: http://b27.clapalong.com/?fid=N20120921198701

you are the best continue for the faction map whit a cap of 80 if you beat all you are so powerful

[dietonight]

Killed in HL2 at Lv 64, before dying to Hades. Was M50.

Alastor: http://b27.clapalong.com/?fid=N201211197683857
Iapetus: http://b27.clapalong.com/?fid=N201211197684719
Androktasiai: http://b27.clapalong.com/?fid=N201211197685646

---

At last, my very first HL2 survive (Position 3). Didn't get a chance to fight a 4th NPC in this position. Was M50.

Menoetius: http://b27.clapalong.com/?fid=N201211197919646
Makaria: http://b27.clapalong.com/?fid=N201211197920514
Persephone: http://b27.clapalong.com/?fid=N201211197921503

Took maybe 15 or so tries, something like that. Menoetius usually isn't a serious problem, but Makaria is due to her 4 cavalry; a single dodge of mutiny outbreak is pretty much fatal. After that, I need Persephone to fail several times, so Dio doesn't get hit with Soul Taking Arrows every turn.

Leveled up to 65 after that achievement. Yes, yes... I know... I did not achieve my goal of beating Phaethon at Lv 64... But 2 Poseidon's Roar wins + an HL2 survive is not that bad a consolation prize.

And now, only a few hours later, an HL2 survive in Position 2, my first demonstration of the power of the new tech Elixir.

Nemean Lion: http://b27.clapalong.com/?fid=N20121120384961
Achlus: http://b27.clapalong.com/?fid=N20121120385907
Aeacus: http://b27.clapalong.com/?fid=N20121120386883

I can assure you this was quite a lot harder than it looked. Nemean Lion isn't much of a threat; but Achlus' water mage forces Dio to the bottom column. This is bad news for Aeacus because the cyclops armored chariot can then tank Dio (relatively speaking) while the remaining enemies rain crits, stun and noct on Dio. The fact that Aeacus is the attacker is a severe disadvantage; it means that the cavalry will very often fire his Noct before Dio fires Mutiny Outbreak. Dio's two early crits were essential.

Don't expect a Position 1 walk off anytime soon. I don't think any hero other than Dio can hope to kill the first three: Alastor, Iapetus and Androktasiai, whose cyclone mage would probably ruin any non-self-healing hero. But even after getting through all that, one is left with the big bad Super (Lv 105) Hades himself. I don't see how Dionysus could survive those Smooth Attacks. So I'm skeptical this is even possible at Lv 65.

[dietonight]

Alas, all the S27 BRs are now expired and although most of what I've done was backed up to Youtube, the BRs in the previous post weren't... I'll do my best to rebuild them. Obviously though, the Position 1 and Position 2 BRs can't be fully re-made because they were done at Lv 64 and I have since leveled up to 65.

In these battles, Dionysus is only Lv 61 because he's still recovering from the +1 ren. Also, I'm only M48.

Position 1
- Alastor: http://b23.clapalong.com/?fid=N2012112218067566
- Iapetus: http://b23.clapalong.com/?fid=N2012112218068398
- Androktasiai: http://b23.clapalong.com/?fid=N2012112218069164
- Hades: http://b23.clapalong.com/?fid=N2012112218070038

Position 2
- Nemean Lion: http://b23.clapalong.com/?fid=N2012112217566345
- Achlus: http://b23.clapalong.com/?fid=N2012112217567258
- Aeacus: http://b23.clapalong.com/?fid=N2012112217568233

Position 3
- Menoetius: http://b23.clapalong.com/?fid=N2012112217937206
- Makaria: http://b23.clapalong.com/?fid=N2012112217938025
- Persephone: http://b23.clapalong.com/?fid=N2012112217938945

[dietonight]

Picked off a weakened, but mostly still intact, HL2 Hades. Prestige was only M47 due to Winter.

http://b23.clapalong.com/?fid=N2012112735270050

He had 16701 faculty, compared to his normal 22580. But really, the biggest difference between this and a normal showdown with HL2 Hades is that I got to attack first. When Dio fires Mutiny Outbreak before the sea giant can rally, rather than before, it's a completely different battle!

[dietonight]

My goal is a 4x kill in HL2, ending with a climactic victory over Hades, at Lv 65 with one hero. Well... I got half my wish today.

Alastor: http://b23.clapalong.com/?fid=N2012112920944608
Iapetus: http://b23.clapalong.com/?fid=N2012112920945431
Androktasiai: http://b23.clapalong.com/?fid=N2012112920946355
Persephone: http://b23.clapalong.com/?fid=N2012112920947179

and a very sweet 4942 laurels out of it!

Prestige - M48, Wash - +83/+80/+85(Max)

Immediately after that, my closest Hades battle yet.

http://b23.clapalong.com/?fid=N2012112921723819

[dietonight]

At long last, the true end of House of Hades.

Alastor: http://b23.clapalong.com/?fid=N2012113015017570
Iapetus: http://b23.clapalong.com/?fid=N2012113015018403
Androktasiai: http://b23.clapalong.com/?fid=N2012113015019324
Hades: http://b23.clapalong.com/?fid=N2012113015020130

Same conditions as before, same wash and prestige, but very different outcome at the end.

[dietonight]

Interesting...

HL2 Hades: http://b23.clapalong.com/?fid=N201212201570604

Just testing out the power of my new equipment: Kylin + Zeus' Cloak + Hero's Pride + Thunderbolt + Greetings at the Doorstep. So it seems Hades can still do a respectable amount of damage, even in the face of a Zeus' Cloak... Also, Kylin is not a 1-hit KO, at least not at low faculty.

[dietonight]

Just for fun, here's Hades getting obliterated by a Lv 11 Dionysus (due to a +1 ren).

http://b23.clapalong.com/?fid=N2013061312826929